Home » VT News » VegasTripping Ep. 22 - Yard Sale

VegasTripping Ep. 22 - Yard Sale

By Chuckmonster on Wednesday, 20th April 2016 11:50am
  » filed under Podcast  comments: 15


VegasTripping Podcast

Ep. 22 - Yard Sale

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Comments & Discussion:

Sweet. This morning was the first time in more than a month that my podcast app has displayed "no unplayed podcasts." This morning's commute was a sad Pandora feed of K-Pop. Tonight should be a much better drive home. And back tomorrow. And home. And back.

Thanks for a fun podcast. I enjoyed the speculation on Wynn's motive for developing the golf course. If Wynn's motive was to distract Wall Street from Macau delays and pending lawsuits, it seems to have worked. Wynn Resorts' stock is up 10 percent since Paradise Park was announced.

In any case, Wall Street would have demanded that the golf course be developed sooner or later. I'm glad that Steve, DeRuyter and Roger will get first crack at developing this property. How would Jim Murren develop this land? Hopefully, Steve will abandon the jet ski and boating ideas in favor of smaller lagoons, fountain shows, more man-made mountains and waterfalls.

This one of your best VT podcasts yet! Great diversity of topics covered. Well worth the listen.

I'm thinking you guys aren't necessarily seeing the entire market for Wynn/Encore because you don't like parts of it. I read your Trippie awards and saw your disdain for what Encore has become but my generation finds pretty much everything you hate as an asset. I'm staying with 15+ people at a bachelor/bachelorette party at Encore in July, my third time staying at the property, because to a large degree it has everything we want (pool party, nightclubs, high end restaurants).

During the summer I've never gone with a group who wants to walk the strip at 105 degrees, so it's taxis (now Uber) everywhere. If we were staying at the new tower and now need to get dropped off or picked up at a new entrance toward the back of the property it makes no difference. I'm assuming they'll be mostly targeting people who aren't walking a lot of places so I don't see this as much of problem as long as they add a few restaurants near the bottom of the new tower.

The main complaint I've read on pretty much any review site about Encore is the noise from XS and Encore Beach Club. That single-handedly is responsible for over 50% of the dissatisfied reviews. For people like me, we'll be at that club until closing, so the noise isn't a problem at all; we're staying there indirectly because of that very noise. The complaints though tell me that a decent portion of the population isn't happy with the nightly noise, so I'd think that a 1000 more rooms at the back of the property away from the noise would help with that issue.

Your point about the low occupancy rates might allow them to differentiate more on pricing by allowing them to drop the rate at Encore relative to the new tower. This could give my generation a kind of a party-oriented tower while allowing you guys to be happier at the new tower. This separation of markets by tower especially makes sense to me with the very slight refresh on Encore, them not wanting to invest heavily in luxury there, leaving that for the new tower.

You guys seem to think that no one is willing to spend $25-50 to go to a beach and relax. Having seen Encore Beach Club general admission tickets hit $117 for a guy this year there's definitely a willingness to pay for access to private, high quality locations. I'm a often commenter on the forum at jackcolton.com and the consistent recommendation with hotels is either to stay at the same hotel that you are going to a pool party or club at, or that where you stay doesn't matter since you'll be at a pool party or club all day and night anyway. That whole crowd is a potential market for this lagoon depending on the atmosphere. That said, I’m not sure how to persuade that audience to come without annoying you guys with noise, but perhaps the new tower will do a better job with soundproofing.

The idea of motorized vehicles of any kind being allowed on this lake is probably the most questionable of things about the project. I think you guys are absolutely correct that if they market at all toward the Encore Beach Club crowd some drunk guy or girl is going to get seriously injured. I just don’t see that working without an unsustainable amount of safety features and personnel, so hopefully they come to their senses and stick with human and wind-powered water vehicles.

The same restaurants and similar rooms designs in Macau are all about consistency. Not saying I agree with it, but it's a well-known practice done by many large chain hotels that seems to keep some customers happy, while also simplifying management. The sundries shop being named Sundries I feel makes finding it on a map easier. Calling it something more flashy just feels completely unnecessary.

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to add another perspective. I’m excited for the new expansion and hope it all works out.

@max thank you for joining us and bringing your thoughts. we love discussion and are eager to entertain all opinions. THANK YOU!

Unless I've completely misunderstood Steve's descriptions on the investor meeting, Wynn Paradise Park is supposed to be a luxury recreation destination. Comparing it to EBC is inappropriate... the business functions are completely different.

At EBC - and every other dance club since the beginning of time - dudes pay steep admission prices for access to women. When you get the women to come to the show (bait: atmosphere, glitz, glamour, DJ's) the dudes will inevitably follow... pay to get in, pay for drinks and blah blah blah. I may not be in the club demographic now, but I once was and spent a lot of time getting loaded, chasing girls and fist pumping to loud music. Sometimes, I was the guy on stage providing the soundtrack. The beats may have changed but the game is still the same. Sex, booze, money.

WPP isn't (overtly) selling sex, beats or booze. This is a non-gaming leisure recreation area - a place to goof around on the water. The concept needs to bake a little more before I'll believe that folks will be willing to spend $25-50 to walk around for an hour or two. Water, sand and late night fireworks aren't a killer app at that price point.

It is obvious we're splitting hairs here. This thing only exists as an idea... we're all operating on scant details, all of which were provided by a lovable and entertaining megalomaniac billionaire. I do love the discussion, and am very curious to see how this concept evolves from this very early iteration.

I just don't see them building this without some sort of plan on how to fill it, and I think you, and pretty much everyone else, are questioning how that's going to be possible with what they are offering at this price point. Who wants to spend $25-50 on an entrance fee just to have the opportunity to pay even more for to rent watercrafts?

I agree that the early vision that Wynn proposed on the call isn't necessarily going to attract much of the EBC crowd to Paradise Park, and attracting that crowd might be detrimental to certain other aspects of the new expansion, but I'm not seeing where else they are going to find enough people to spend $25-50 entrance fees if they don't attract at least some of that crowd. XS Nightclub can get 10k admissions in a night, so obviously there are enough of that demographic to fulfill their entrance goals.

I'm thinking the lagoon is large enough to create a 21 and over area, with some expensive, luxury reservable seating, and a cheaper DJ (which is exactly what they created with Encore Players Club). I'm just saying with how vague and incomplete his idea seems to be, they have plenty of time to add a space to the plan that appeals to the affluent 21-35 crowd who would be willing to pay $25-50 for entrance plus massive amounts more for alcohol and seating to experience the new location.

The only other markets for this besides people already staying at the property are families with children, which Wynn/Encore obviously hasn't courted with their anti-stroller policies, and then people staying at another hotel that doesn't have a great pool, which I think might bring in too many "poor people" for Steve Wynn's taste. Sex, beats, and booze might work though.

$117 for admission to EBC? Wow. I'm starting to see why Wynn is like, "Gamblers? Who needs gamblers?"

Avicii on Saturdays is $100 before taxes and fees, $117 after them. Other DJs on Saturdays are "only" going for $75 before taxes and fees and $90 after them. The more ridiculous thing is tables starting at $2.4k and cabanas capping out at $32k for Avicii. Hard to imagine not courting a crowd that will spend the same amount as what a mid-range car costs to drink and rent a space for 6 hours.

"Pretty unremarkable", Quite unremarkable". No, not Episode 22, Yard Sale, but The Park. It will be successful as the entrance into T-Mobile Area, but like everything MGM, it doesn't sound like it has a soul.

Your Wynn discussion was great. Imo, Steve held the Investor Day confab to bolster his image and try to diminish possible damage inflicted by any of the statements Elaine and her lawyers have have issued and will continue to issue. Steve probably shouldn't have given all the detail on Paradise Park. By the time construction starts, it will likely be totally different. You asked the question what type of clientele the hotel will attract, higher, same or lower. Based on Steve's adoration of Disney, I'm expecting a mid-market Disney World type clientele with some convention business thrown in. In fact, I also expect the Paradise Road side of the property to be contracted out to convention hotels to be built at the same time with the water a nice visual. Nightly fireworks and water skiing? I doubt it.

You talked about Steve's main developments, The Mirage, Bellagio and Wynn. Steve and Roger Thomas have been a genius team, but I'm not sure they can do anything new at Paradise Park. I hope Paradise Park doesn't damage Steve's legacy of building luxury. To me, it conjures up images of something MGM would do.

If Paradise Park opens in 2020, that's 21 years after Mandalay Bay opened and 31 years after The Mirage. Since then, actual beachfront hotels like Atlantis and Disney's Aulani have raised the bar.

Room rates at Atlantis and Aulani are higher than Wynn's standard room rates. Millions of people would love to stay at Atlantis and Aulani, but few can. Could Paradise Park be designed to appeal to that demographic?

If Paradise Park opens in 2020, Steve will be 78. He likely won't have time for a do-over. Paradise Park will be his last hurrah.

Could Wynn create a fountain show between the new Paradise Park hotel and the building that resembles an electric shaver? How much would it cost to build a mountain-waterfall facade to hide the electric shaver building?

Could Wynn develop the other half of the golf course with a partner? Golden Nugget? Universal Studios? These companies are geared towards the mass market. Perfect partners for building a water park or filling a boardwalk with restaurants.

Great discussion as ever.

The talk about suitable Wynn-attire and the Wynn-crowd reminded me of the first time the missus and I stayed at Wynn TS about 8 years back. We had just spent 3 days river rafting on the Grand Canyon in summer, having not showered, camped in the open air and then spent 5 hours on a stinking hot bus back from the Arizona lake-side. We must have stank the place out and been covered with an inch of sand all over. The staff never batted an eyelid, but we felt slightly out of place at the time...

Think this episode proves that I could listen to you guys talk about anything. Keep it up!

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