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Just for fun: If you could play Las Vegas Developer God, which projects would you build? Which would you kill?

Last edit: jucifers on Friday, 7th October 2016 11:40 am
Last response by 4theoldman1 17th October 2:01pm

Just for fun: If you could play Las Vegas Developer God, which projects would you build? Which would you kill?

Wynn Paradise Park: build it or kill it?

Alon: build it or kill it?

Resorts World Genting: build it or kill it?

Fountainebleau: build it or kill it? If build, would you prefer high end or mid-market?

Convention Center Expansion: build it or kill it?

NFL Stadium: build it or kill it?

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 jucifers responded on Friday, 7th October 2016

I'll start this discussion by throwing in my own two cents direct from the peanut gallery.

NFL Stadium and Convention Center Expansion: Build both of them. The publicity from the NFL hosting Super Bowls in Las Vegas will be incredible. Every regular season football game will be an advertisement for Las Vegas. The Convention Center Expansion will ensure Las Vegas' domination of the convention business for decades to come.

Resorts World Genting: Kill it! Indoor water park plans show that Resorts World doesn't understand the Las Vegas Market. Resorts World might do well marketing to families in Asia, but Las Vegas isn't for kids. Las Vegas is Disneyland for adults: sex, drugs and gambling in a fantasy environment. Plus, they'll never get the pandas from China and the building's exterior is too damn red. The building models look like shit.

Alon: Build it, if they can line up the financing. The way Chuckmonster describes Alon, it sounds like a fantastic hotel. Resorts World should cancel their own project and joint venture with Crown to get Alon built. If Alon can't get financing, Crown and Andrew Pascal should approach Wynn about selling half of Encore to them. Crown would gain a home base for their Asian and Australian customers. Wynn Resorts could strengthen its balance sheet and acquire Alon's land.

Wynn Paradise Park: Build it. The TV spots for this place will generate a buzz that Las Vegas hasn't seen in years. Paradise Park should be designed exclusively for the 21 and up crowd. No children. Las Vegas is not for kids. Which activities would appeal to adults and make for great TV visuals? Mountains, tropical lagoons, zip-lining, cave tubing, Key West style bar scene, free shows, fireworks and Bellagio style fountain shows viewable from guest rooms with terraces.

Fountainebleau: Not sure about this one. The Fertittas should keep Green Valley Ranch, Red Rock and the Palms. They should sell their other local casinos to Boyd in exchange for Gold Coast, the Stardust brand and Orleans. The Fertittas should bring back the Stardust: convert either Fountainebleau or Rio to the Stardust brand and create a 2nd version of downtown Las Vegas on either the North Strip or the Rio-Gold Coast-Palms neighborhood.

 vespajet responded on Friday, 7th October 2016

Paradise Park: Build it. There's more money to be made with it than if they kept the full golf course.

Alon: Build it. The North Strip is long been a forgotten area because of the stalled projects.

Resorts World: See Alon.

Fontainebleau: Tear it down and build something from scratch. I liken it to the Landmark Hotel & Casino, which took over 8 years to be completed and was a financial failure its' entire time. The property is an eyesore and even if someone were to buy it and finish it, it would take quite a bit of work to change the mindset of people about it. They might even be able to grab the former Wet-N-Wild site while they're at it. Build a mid-market resort aimed towards convention goers who don't have the expense accounts to stay at Wynn/Encore or Venetian/Palazzo, which leads me to the next item.

Convention Center Expansion: Build it. If Las Vegas wants to continue to be one of the premier convention destinations in the US, they'll need to expand in order to add additional conventions.

NFL Stadium. This one depends on the location. To me, it needs to be part of the LVCC, as in many cities, there are convention centers either attached to or adjacent to the stadium. I can understand the opposition to it because the CCSD does get some of its' funding from the hotel/motel tax and using some of it to finance a stadium (especially when compared to the amount of public funding in the newest stadiums in the NFL) when the folks proposing it are quite wealthy themselves. Sheldon Adelson could pay for the entire thing himself and still be able to buy his gold backscratchers. He wants to stadium as a way to stop the expansion of the LVCC, which would impact his Sands Expo Center.

 jucifers replied on Friday, 7th October 2016

Vespajet, in regards to Resorts World, would you build it as per the current plans or would you prefer to see something else? Stardust?

 vespajet replied on Saturday, 8th October 2016

I'd stick with the Asian theme, as it would bring something unique to the Strip since so many themed properties have seen their theming toned down in recent years.

 hail2skins responded on Friday, 7th October 2016

NFL Stadium: Build it, and I might even change my moniker from "hail2skins" to "hail2raiders"

Build: whatever Derek has planned for the LVC, Glitter Gulch, Mermaids, as well as the Golden Gate expansion at the former LaBayou site

Build: Paradise Park, because its Wynn

Build: something at Excalibur site, provided Wynn buys it and implodes the castle. Because its Wynn

Convention Center: I guess. If it helps bring new business to the city I've loved for 25 years......why not

Alon, Resorts World, Fountainebleau: as time passes, I become less and less excited about these new Strip projects (unless its Wynn!). Mainly because I see these places will just be an extension of the Strip nickel and diming (hard to play 3/2 blackjack under $25, pay to park, etc) that has driven me to be a Fremont Street customer for the past 10 years.

 jucifers replied on Monday, 10th October 2016

"Alon, Resorts World, Fountainebleau: as time passes, I become less and less excited about these new Strip projects (unless its Wynn!). Mainly because I see these places will just be an extension of the Strip nickel and diming (hard to play 3/2 blackjack under $25, pay to park, etc) that has driven me to be a Fremont Street customer for the past 10 years."

You nailed it. My feelings exactly.

 Hyperfocal responded on Friday, 7th October 2016

Resorts World, Alon and Convention Center -- all build.

If all three projects were built, they would revitalize the north strip. Alon is high end, Resorts, more middle of the road. Convention Center gives them traffic and guests.

Fountainbleu -- kill it. I've spent a lot of time walking around, looking at the building site. There is nothing of value there. It was poorly thought out and from things I've read, poorly designed. One example, the spa was supposed to be over the casino floor, but no space was left for pools and spas, causing massive construction overages. (Can't remember where I read this, unfortunately. So it might be BS.)

NFL stadium -- Unless a team is sold to someone with strong Las Vegas ties, don't do it. The area will be renting a team for 15-20 years (See: St. Louis)

Paradise Park -- ambivalent. It doesn't seem like a good idea except as a space filler between Wynncore and a new project near Paradise, but Steve Wynn does have a track record. At least it's an out of the box idea. A lot depends on the price tag. $40-60 million OK, anything more than that and it won't be profitable.

 levans responded on Saturday, 8th October 2016

Build all of them but with caveats.
The stadium only works if its on the Strip or close to it. Put it behind the Rio or on the other side of the Palms. Or just past Stratosphere. If its off the beaten path then it's Cashman Field; we know it's there but can't get to it.
Paradise Park isn't going to change the face of the Strip but it will keep people in the area.
Alon if it is as its described to be would be a great addition to the Strip and draw tourists and guests.
Resorts World could be a game changer if done right and would revitalize the entire area.
Fountainbleau needs to be completed, developed or torn down and changed into something else. If it's revived then along with the Convention Center people will have a reason to wander down to that end of the Strip at night. A lot of people think the Strip ends once you pass Encore or won't go that far down at night because they don't think it's worth it. SLS has learned that by now.

 Diablo responded on Saturday, 8th October 2016

Paradise Park: scrap it but i dont know what you can build there. Keeping the golf course is dumb because i doubt it generates much money but another hotel wont have a view. a water park just doesnt seem 'high end', and since Steve hates poor people i dont know what kind of clientele he expects to attract with it.

Alon: its pretty obvious they will declare bankruptcy or try to save face by selling it off to someone. As much as Steve Wynn is an asshole, he makes nice hotels, so i wouldnt mind seeing him buy it and make one last super high end hotel. But knowing him he'll have 5:10 blackjack odds and 0.25X craps there, but people wont care because the parking is free.

Resorts: dont care, location sucks. asian theme doesnt interest me, and i doubt it would interest many other people either. Build the stadium here?

Fountainbleu: Blow that bitch up. It looks like a generic office building in manhattan. Its ugly. period. Hopefully Icahn takes a loss on it.

NFL stadium: build it as long as Adelson is NOT involved. Resorts World, UNLV, and the golf course near Mandalay all seem like good enough locations.

Id also like to see the Fertitas make something on the strip. Red Rock is a very nice place and would like to see them do something else. Plus they have all that UFC cash...$4 billion would make a nice hotel.

 vespajet replied on Saturday, 8th October 2016

Ichan paid $150 million for it and that was before he sold the off the furniture and as much metal he could sell for scrap. Even if he didn't get the $650 million asking price, he's going to walk away with a very nice profit.

 jucifers replied on Monday, 10th October 2016

"Resorts: dont care, location sucks. asian theme doesnt interest me, and i doubt it would interest many other people either. Build the stadium here?"

My feelings exactly. Mandalay Bay already has the tropical Asian theme well represented. China is a terrible travel destination and a crappy theme for a hotel. Watch "An Idiot Abroad" on Netflix before you visit China. Disgusting place.

 StudiodeKadent responded on Saturday, 8th October 2016

Paradise Park: build it. Steve's always loved water (see his original Beau Rivage project for where Bellagio now is). Obviously the golf course just wasn't as much of a moneyspinner as Steve thought it would be so the whole course is probably on the way out. Who knows... maybe if the whole course gets redeveloped, we'll see the Wynn Palace and Wynn Diamond brands from Cotai get brought over to Vegas (the Paradise Park hotel will probably be branded one of these?).

Resorts World: build it. It'll expand the Vegas market by importing some Asian high-roller money. Also the rooftop water park will be cool. It is possible to have some family stuff without becoming all 'pathetically Disney'.. admittedly I'm biased because I enjoy rollercoasters and amusement parks. Also Resorts World has quite a few mass-market hotel brands so we can expect they will bring mass-market stuff into Vegas too (besides the water park).

Alon: build it. More Asian high-roller money (the Crown connection.. and Alon's VIP hotel will probably be Crown-branded). More brands and more competition.

Fontainebleau: build it but position it as 'mass market but quality-concerned' a la Mirage. That's kind of Vegas' most underserved market segment right now; SLS tried to serve it but so far isn't doing so well (a shame... when I went there I thought it was a pretty cool property... kind of a less campy, less expensive Cosmo).

Convention Center: Build it.

NFL Stadium: DO NOT build it. LV taxpayer money shouldn't go to subsidizing private businesses like the NFL. Corporatism is bad, mmmkay? And Adelson is an utter hypocrite for wanting that stadium, but that's a different issue. Also, screw the NFL in general.

 jucifers responded on Monday, 10th October 2016

Thanks to everyone who commented!

After weighing the evidence, I'm switching my vote on Fontainebleu from abstain to "blow that ugly bitch up". Hotels should not look like "office buildings".

 pkluvsvegas responded on Friday, 14th October 2016

Wynn Paradise Park: Build it, just keep it luxurious and tasteful. If not, as in it will be EBC x 10, kill it. I love the idea of Wynn Suites with balconies.

Alon: Build it, Wynn needs someone to keep him on his toes. Plus the North Strip needs help.

Resorts World: Build it. See the above. Resorts World is the lynchpin of North Strip development. If it dies, I doubt we will see anything here for 10 years. If it gets built, goodbye Circus Circus, sadly.

Fountainbleau: More plain than Aria, more rust than Hooters. Build something there that is unique not another reject from Florida. Kill it.

Convention Center Expansion: Kill it. There are enough convention spaces in town. Would rather see Riviera 2.0.

NFL Stadium: Kill it, light it on fire, piss on it's corpse and kill it again just to be sure. This is the one thing that will turn Vegas fully into a smaller version of LA. Same trash sports fans, the hotels will rape us with not only higher room rates, but a higher occupancy tax. No parking lot will be free, and traffic will be worse. I seriously could not be more against an NFL team coming to Vegas. Especially if it is the Raiders. Just build them a stadium in East LA, put a wall around it, and let the people there have the team they want, not the Rams. They'd be able to pay for the cost of the stadium in like a year there.

 4theoldman1 responded on Monday, 17th October 2016

Regarding Fountainbleu: This property should go non-gaming, be a combo residential and office hq for a techie company. No driving, high salaries, onsite amenities.An Actual, revenue generating center, rather than a mere suck it up entertainment hole.