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Could Paradise Park render Encore Beach Club obsolete? Would Encore be restored to its pre-beach club excellence?

Last edit: jucifers on Thursday, 22nd September 2016 11:04 am
Last response by n580564x 18th October 11:16am

Here's a link to Chuckmonster's excellent analysis of Wynn Paradise Park:

Most of the plans announced since Chuckmonster's analysis indicate that Paradise Park is geared towards a younger demographic: Man-made mountains with zip-lining, rope bridges, Rose-Rabbit-Lie type entertainers spicing up an outdoor bar and party scene, even an animatronic King Kong to climb the mountains.

Is Wynn planning to shift the party crowd hang-outs from Encore to Paradise Park? Could Paradise Park be less of an answer to Alon and more of an answer to Hakkasan, Cosmopolitan, Cromwell and Hard Rock? Wynn could carve out additional scenes within the mountains and reserve these places for the high-end luxury demographic.

Why would Wynn repeat the mistake he made at Treasure Island, trying to attract families? Why not restrict Paradise Park to the 21 and up demographic?

Another crazy idea for Paradise Park: If Wynn is designing new mountains from scratch, why not design a Cave Tubing experience like those popular in Belize and Puerto Rico? Here's a link to cave tubing videos on Youtube:

How could Wynn minimize interactions between luxury guests and the party crowd? Separate floor plans, separate elevators, a tram running between Encore and Paradise Park, moving all of the dance clubs to Paradise Park?

What do you guys think?

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 RateVegas responded on Thursday, 22nd September 2016

I'd put the chances of Paradise Park meaning EBC goes away at zero.

 vespajet replied on Thursday, 22nd September 2016

Zero point zero.....

 jucifers replied on Thursday, 22nd September 2016

Encore Beach Club/Surrender cost $70 million to build. How much money has Wynn lost on Encore room rates from the guest room windows vibrating to the sound of oonce, oonce, oonce? More than the $70 million it cost to build Encore Beach Club?

What is the true cost of Encore, XS and Surrender operating in a hotel where mature guests are trying to sleep? If Paradise Park fulfills the same role as Encore Beach Club, why keep both? If the economics work, why wouldn't Wynn move Encore Beach Club to Paradise Park?

 RateVegas replied on Thursday, 22nd September 2016

You need to look at how much it makes, not how much it cost to build.

Plus, there's no evidence to suggest that it's presence is scaring away anyone they actually care about. Given the Wynn brand there's an endless amount of lowish to medium rollers willing to spend $150-$250 a night for a room at Wynn joint. Those people aren't going to run off to someplace else because some rooms have some extra noise at night and even if they do complain, they get a comp to the buffet and worst case scenario is they write about it on TripAdvisor.

The people that Wynn really cares about that care about noise are all in the WLV tower or at Encore and either high enough up or on the other side. Keep in mind - a bunch of the club kids have $$ and stay at Encore - and they are at the party until it ends and then sleep all day. So not an issue unless you're a normal unlucky enough to be in the wrong spot who doesn't know or isn't willing to complain, though when you check in there now, they often ask about it.

Tell an institutional investor in Wynn Resorts that you want to give up over a hundred million in revenue a year because the windows rattle and your stock will be sunk faster than you can say 'Cramer sucks'.

Wynn wants to build more sources of income from the folks that have clearly demonstrated willingness to pay, not take them away. They will create more of these income streams - build on to what they have, not remove them.

 jucifers replied on Saturday, 24th September 2016

"Wynn wants to build more sources of income from the folks that have clearly demonstrated willingness to pay, not take them away. They will create more of these income streams - build on to what they have, not remove them."

Completely agree with you about this. I never suggested that Wynn remove these revenue streams. On the contrary, I am suggesting that Wynn can dramatically increase these revenue streams from the party crowd by building bigger and better versions of Encore Beach Club/Surrender and XS at Paradise Park.

The bigger and better versions of E.C.B. and XS would render the old versions superfluous. XS could become an ultra lounge or nightclub tailored to the tastes of guests over 30. In addition to increasing revenue streams from the party crowd, Wynn could increase revenue streams from luxury guests/gamblers as well, by taking advantage of all the space created from Paradise Park to separate as much as possible luxury guests/gamblers from loud party people.

 salkken responded on Thursday, 22nd September 2016

If Wynn wants to separate the gamblers from partiers, wouldn't a tram connecting the two properties do just the opposite?

 jucifers replied on Thursday, 22nd September 2016

A tram would make it easier for young partiers to spend more time in Paradise Park and less time in Encore. Wynn could shift the restaurants, bars and pools that appeal to this crowd to Paradise Park. But if Wynn's Paradise Park hotel has only 1,000 rooms, many Encore rooms would still be needed to serve a portion of the party crowd. The tram could be part of a crowd flow design that minimizes interaction between luxury guests and young partiers.

 StudiodeKadent responded on Thursday, 22nd September 2016

If Paradise Park is for families then Encore Beach Club isn't being replaced; the clubbers are a different market to families.

If anything, given the Encore Player's Club, it seems to me Encore is becoming even more clubber-oriented.

 jucifers replied on Saturday, 24th September 2016

I don't believe that Paradise Park is designed for families; I believe that phase one of Paradise Park is intended for clubbers and phase two is intended for luxury guests. The mountains will separate luxury guests from party guests in the same way that Disneyland's Matterhorn separates Tomorrowland from Fantasyland.

Las Vegas made a mistake in the 90's trying to attract the family crowd. Las Vegas is a hard sell for families even under the best of circumstances. Even when families do come, they don't spend as much and they diminish the experience for luxury guests. Families with small children don't spend as much on gambling, liquor, nightclubs, shopping and spa visits. I don't believe that Wynn will make that mistake again.

 n580564x replied on Tuesday, 18th October 2016

@Jucifer I agree with your assertion that Wynn is not for families. If you want my experience with Wynn see my review on this board. But your assertion that families somehow ruin "Luxury guests" is somewhat laughable, these 2 demographics rarely cross paths in Vegas in my experience. Families are generally not in the Casino (I mean responsible parents), in bars or clubs or spas. As far as families not spending I also disagree, this is completely anecdotal, but I spend $3000 to $5000 per every trip (3 to 5 nights generally). I and my wife spend $2000 to $3000 per visit on gambling and another $1500 to $2000 on food and entertainment. I doubt that the average Luxury guest spends much more than that. Most luxury guests in my experience are not spending tons more than that. You forget that when a family eats they are buying food for 4,5 or as in my case 6 people per meal. When I buy cirque show tickets I'm buying 6 tickets. Your argument doesn't hold water, it is erroneous on all counts.

 LeoNYC responded on Friday, 23rd September 2016

They would be crazy if they close EBC or XS. Both places bring gigantic revenue. Unless the night club/pool party scene are not a trendy thing (which won't happen any time soon), both places will still be open for a while. Even with guests complaining of the noise. The comps and room moves are probably noting comparing to the revenue these clubs bring.
I wish they would move to the other side of the resort, but I doubt this will happen.

 jucifers replied on Saturday, 24th September 2016

You're right. Wynn would be crazy to close E.B.C. and XS, unless and until Wynn opens new and improved, bigger and better versions of E.B.C. and XS at Paradise Park.

Encore Beach Club was shoehorned into the property in a way that is sub-optimal for both luxury guests and party people. Paradise Park gives Wynn the opportunity to improve the experience for both luxury guests and party people, by separating them and spreading them out across the old golf course. More leg room for everyone.

 Drake responded on Monday, 26th September 2016

You don't move a thriving cash-cow. You just don't.

To me, this entire Paradise Park sounds pie-in-the-sky anyway, so it may be a moot point entirely.